I do not believe men should owe child support for children conceived out of wedlock

Men have no say in the matter if the woman has an abortion. Women can “trick” men into getting them pregant even when the man thinks they are having “safe sex.” I see no reason to legally saddle a man with child support for eighteen plus years due to what was probably a few minutes of consensual sex.  Yes, I have ulterior motives. I think that if the law adopted my position it would encourage women to not have sex unless they were married. I think sex outside of marriage is immoral. 

Do not give me this crap about how the “innocent children” will suffer if the man is not forced to provide for the child. The woman should have thought of that before she had sex. And yes, I said the woman should have thought about that.  She is the one who chooses whether to bring a child into this world.  The man has no say in the matter–even if he is married to her–in the current state of our laws.

An article today from the Flint Journal mentions a guy who has fathered fourteen children by fourteen different women out-of-wedlock.  He owes $533,000 in unpaid child support. Now a judge is going to put him in jail for 90 days unless he comes up with over $27,000. Like that will happen.  I have no sympathy for this dead-beat father. But I also have no sympathy for the ignorant immoral women who allowed him to father their children.

As Ann Coulter has rightfully pointed out in her new book, single mothers cause grave harm to our society by having children out-of-wedlock. I’m not talking about those single mothers who are divorced or widows. That is not their fault, and they need our support. I’m talking about single mothers who choose to have children out of wedlock. The children of single mothers are tremendously more likely to become criminals, to be raised in poverty, and to turn to drugs.  It is time to stop encouraging women who have children out of wedlock. If this seems harsh, it is only because you have not considered the alternative–that by helping them collect money from the fathers and that by helping them with welfare and other government aid we are encouraging women to have more children out of wedlock.  Think that is just me and my faulty logic?

ATLANTA – “Out-of-wedlock births in the United States have climbed to an all-time high, accounting for nearly four in 10 babies born last year, government health officials said Tuesday.

“While out-of-wedlock births have long been associated with teen mothers, the teen birth rate actually dropped last year to the lowest level on record. Instead, births among unwed mothers rose most dramatically among women in their 20s.

“Experts said the overall rise reflects the burgeoning number of people who are putting off marriage or living together without getting married. They said it also reflects the fact that having a child out of wedlock is more acceptable nowadays and not necessarily the source of shame it once was.”

STOP ENCOURAGING THEM. They want to have babies out of wedlock, make them and their families suffer the consequences. Sure, I would stop paying taxes and stop working and take whatever I wanted from you or anybody else. If you took away the negative consequences.  It is time to reconsider our policies that are driving this plague [I know plague sounds harsh, but go to the nearest juvenile detention center–the vast majority were born out of wedlock] of children being borne out of wedlock:

“It never occurs to anyone to simply return to the original rule: Unless a man is married to a woman when she gives birth to his child, he has no rights to that child, and unless a woman is married to a man when she gives birth to his child, she has no right to his paycheck or his time.” — P.67 of Ann Coulter’s book “Guilty: Liberal ‘Victims’ and Their Assault on America”

50 responses to “I do not believe men should owe child support for children conceived out of wedlock

  1. I agree. Every guy should adhere to this article! It could happen to you! Just google child support or dead beat and hundreds of articles similar to this will appear. This guy is our new poster guy for what us guys have to go threw!Dudesappearmanhttp://www.wcpo.com/content/news/fresh/story/3-Officers-Injured-While-Running-Down-Suspect/YeLwSjtYok2lV3aAarf5Hg.cspx

  2. If a man does not want to pay child support, he should simply use protection. I would suggest bringing his own protection, as to prevent tampering. We will be teaching our sons to do this.

    A man has options before he impregnates a woman.

    Though, I do agree that women AND men, should seriously consider their partner before having sex. Premarital sex is fine, as long as it’s safe. I’m married, but if I were not, I would certainly not be sleeping with a man with a litter of bastard children.

  3. I know a lot of women who would throw a hissy over your thoughts and opinions, and while some of this I do find offensive, I agree with the core of it. I disagree that men should be exempt from financial responsibility if a child is born out of wedlock, but I do think certain aspects should be taken into consideration by a court when he is taken for support and or custody of a child. Like how long these two parents were in a relationship before this child was born, what reason the couple split to begin with, how long it took to go after support/custody…cuz that says a lot about motives in my opinion…and whether or not protection was used by BOTH parents. Men always think protection is the womans responsibility…but its the responsibility of BOTH individuals to protect against an unwanted pregnancy. I have 3 children, all 3 were born out of wedlock-different circumstances, but all 3 are blessings and I love them more than anything. My husband is their father, though he is only biologically the father of the youngest…my ex is the father of my oldest two and I would do anything to have his rights and support taken away. It angers me that someone like my ex, who is an abusive prick that raped me because I left him when he hit our son, has rights to my oldest two-one who is the result of being raped by him-though he doesnt pay the support he was ordered to pay when HE demanded the judge give him these rights that he doesnt give a rats behind about to begin with.

  4. Well Rachel, you certainly did the right thing. I’m sorry that the court system treats you that way. But as long as the ex is not abusing them or being a really bad example, I’d still believe that the father should have some influence in their lives, and see his children. The failure to pay child support is a separate issue, and kids should not be used as bargaining chips (not saying you are doing that). There are other ways to make him pay. Get a lawyer and have him held in contempt of court for failing to pay (I assume you have a court order awarding support). Don’t know about your state but Virginia will even lock people up who fail to make payments, and they will garnish their wages.

    And bearing the child of a rapist is really putting the pro life of the child ahead of yourself. Bravo! Aren’t you glad you didn’t abort!?

    J, I was NOT taught that. Whew, was I lucky.

  5. I paid child support for 16 years, at first voluntarily, then when my ex started collecting assistance from the state, they made it mandatory. Funny thing is, when the state got involved, my child support payment went down. I was self-employed so instead of sending my ex a check directly, I had to buy a money order and send it to the state.

    The point I was making is if you want to dance, you gotta pay the band. Before I was married and after my divorce, I would always make sure to use some kind of protection.

  6. My ex is abusive to the children, thankfully we moved and he has had no contact with them for almost a year now…he has court ordered supervised visitations because of his abuse and lack of real involvement in their lives however. I dont want the child support, I’ve never wanted it…so enforcing it isnt a concern of mine. It is a huge pet peeve of mine when women, sometimes even men, use children against their ex’s…like, “if you dont pay child support you cant see them” and things like that. I know a few women who do this and I just want to hit them. As hard as it has been over the years, I have treated my ex with respect that he doesnt deserve because my kids dont need me to bad mouth him, he does that pretty well on his own. Unfortunately for my kids, their father isnt interested in being a part of their lives, he’s only interested in hurting me and as a result of his desire to hurt me, he has hurt my kids. And that is something I will not stand for. In Indiana (where the kids were born and my ex lives) it is a class D felony to owe more than $10,000 and right now he is over $22,000 behind. Taking him to court has proved pointless…I mean, they give him a time frame to pay such and such amount or go to jail, he doesnt pay it for whatever reason and spends 10 days in jail, he’s released and told to get a steady job and after 6 months we’re back in court cuz he still hasnt payed the support and he goes back to jail and we start the process all over again. Its a lose lose situation, the kids dont get the support-which thankfully I have never needed it-and he loses any job he has been able to get because he goes to jail for non-payment. So, I dont bother anymore. He still gets to see the kids, at least he has the chance to see them as much as possible, though he never does. He has another ex who has a son with him who is vicious about support and is always taking him to court for contempt, and she is one who uses their son as ammunition and wont let him have anything to do with him even if he wanted to. *she is someone who lied about being on BC and got pregnant to try and tie him down, when that didnt work she jumped on the support and has kept their son from him.* Right now, my husband and I are working towards adoption, my ex wont sign over his rights so we are in the process of proving he has abandoned them relationally, as well as financially, despite our attempts to keep him involved and enforce the support order he demanded from the start.

    On a side note, abortion was never an option in my mind. I struggled for a long time on whether or not I was going to raise my daughter or allow someone to adopt her. The choice to raise her came about a month before she was born. And I am glad I chose to raise her, she is a ray of sunshine I cant imagine life without!

  7. When people have sex out marriage, they don’t respect each other or themselves. They are just futilely looking for a moment of pleasure. Government has no real solution for such a problem. That is why we use to leave such matters to religion. Unfortunately, we now have a secular society that chooses to disregard the role of religion.

    Yet we need to do something. Some of the things people do are so irresponsible that there is no good answer after the fact. For example, if you smoke in bed, and the house catches fire…. The only real solution for such a fire is prevention.

    Similarly, sex out of wedlock creates problems that are quite difficult to fix after the fact. After the fact, all we can do is try to protect the children. Unfortunately, as you suggest, involuntary child support reduces the risk to thoughtless women. However, one would think it would cause thoughtful men to at least consider the possibility they might get stuck with a bill. But there is a problem, what thoughtful man has sex with a woman he has not already married.

    So how do we make people caring and thoughtful? Our forefathers did that by bringing them to Jesus.

    BTW- I have a comment in moderation awaiting your approval.

  8. Yes, i see that starving children and babies to death works. byu not helping the unwed mother i am so sure more babies wont be born that way. i mean, it totally works in africa right? people have stopped having sex there and having babies yes? OHHH wiat a minute, no they havent. there are still HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of children and babies starving to death in poor countries. wow, i see that idea of not helping really helps to stop people from having sex?

  9. Wow… I do find offense to this. I had my daughter at 17 with a guy I dated through high school. We did use protection but I still got pregnant. So what you are saying is that as her mother since I choose not to abort my beautiful daughter, who i could not imagine living with out, that her father should not have to support her at all??? So the fact that I worked my butt off to graduate high school and then graduate college while working full time means I am tramp who deserves to pay for my sins. ok… yep… If the father shouldn’t have to pay child support then he should have NO RIGHTS to the child because it was my sin right??

    • Lipton T. Bagg

      Not at all Cheeres:

      What it means is it is not society’s responsibility to care for the child you bore – it’s yours. If you must work long hours to pay for what the child needs, that should be your responsibility, not mine – inasmuch as the decision which brought the child to fruition was also yours, not mine.

      Speaking only for myself, I bear you no ill will for choosing to have your child. Adoption is an option for some, not for others. I do and will always disapprove of abortion as an alternate form of birth control. But it should not be my responsibility – socially nor economically – to pay a price for your ill-advised foray into pre-martial intercourse. And that’s exactly what it was.

      And it damn sure should not be my responsibility to be a surrogate paycheck for a dead-beat dad.

      Sin or no sin, as a child you should not have been having sex. As a father, I know things happens. But i am not yet a grandfather, and I’d like to think one reason is because I taught my children the responsibility of sex IN TOTO – meaning the outcome is theirs to keep, not just the orgasm.

      The price you paid in keeping your child is yours. So is the joy she has brought you. You state it was a blessing and I accept your word. However there are far too many women – some in third and fourth generations – who use childbirth as a method to gain life-long income on the backs of others. And it’s wrong.

      -LTB

    • By your logic, the father should have as much say in you getting an abortion as you do.

      If you chose to have the kid that was your decision and so you should be responsible for YOUR decision.

  10. Lee – Since you care sooooo much, we know we can count upon you and other selfless souls like yourself to care for all those starving children. So why does our government have to do anything? Won’t you heroically take care of matters for us?

    Of course, that is the point, is it not? You know yourself; will you do anything?

    Is this about soothing a guilty conscious? Are you just looking for a solution that seems easy? Are you just voting for politicians who promise an easy solution — easing your conscious?

    Please look up the word gullible. Politicians don’t fix problems; they fix blame. That is why child support for out of wedlock births does not help. It just adds more people to an already expensive bureaucracy.

    Forced child support payments do not change the heart of the father or the mother; it merely fixes blame on the father. In fact, the child would probably be better served if the mother went to an adoption agency. They are plenty of people willing to adopt a newborn.

    When people engage in bad behavior, they have no right to expect others to clean up after them. When others do, they do so out of charity. Because charity is a form of love, that is why the government is so horrendously bad at it. A government bureaucracy cannot love anyone. Thus, charity falls within the province of religion.

  11. I think some of y’all are getting a little bent out of shape for no reason. The point of the article was that there are some women out there who just get pregnant for the money they will receive either in child support payments or in welfare/food stamps or both.

    The point was not that every man should quit their obligations vis a vis child support. And I agree with a previous poster that the moral imperative is that a person, man or woman, should wait until marriage to have sex. I know not all of us do that, but that’s the right thing to do.

    • thatmrgguy – You just don’t understand. If the state of Virginia does not force out-of-wedlock child support payments, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of children and babies starving to death in poor countries will starve. The earth will part and Africa will slip into a crevasse. Worse of all, people will stop having sex.

      • Funny you should mention Virginia. That’s the state I sent my child support to. They didn’t have any problem forcing me to pay child support.

        And I have relatives who work in Africa helping the people and children of that continent. They teach those folks about sanitation, teach their children how to read and write. Teach their parents how to grow food, ect. They also bring the Gospel of Jesus to them. My relatives have been doing this all their adult lives and their kids have taken up their cause.

  12. The person who wrote this is very ignorant indeed and living in the dark ages. If it is immoral for a woman to have sex outside of marriage, so it is also immoral for a man to have sex outside of marriage. People who place blame ONLY on the women have absolutely no respect for women whatsoever and I hope they never breed another generation of women-haters.

    Men have a choice. Their choice is birth control (condoms or abstinence). If they choose to have unprotected sex, they also have made the choice to deal with whatever consequences that may arise, whether it be STD’s or undesired pregnancy.

    A married man I know did not want children. His wife went off birth control without his permission, simply informed him of the fact. When she became pregnant he constantly grumbled about it. You know what? He chose not to stop having sex with her, and he is equally responsible for the conception of that child. I must add that now that their child is here, he is absolutely smitten, and they are (both) happily expecting their second. My point here though, is that you choose whether or not to have sex that you know to be unprotected, whether it is with your wife, girlfriend, or one-night stand, and by making the choice to do so, you get the natural consequnces that follow. Putting it only on the woman is very ignorant, and not at all Christ-like. The blogger pointed out the immorality, etc, but must not read the bible, or he would know that Jesus did not condemn the woman accused of adultary.

  13. Jesus didnt condemn her, no…but He did indeed point out that she was living in sin and had been living in sin for some time. He told her to go and sin no more, and we can only hope and assume that she did just that-went on her way and lived a moral life of respecting her own body as well as the bodies of men she otherwise would have toyed with. Though the point of that account in the Bible is to bring to our attention that we are all guilty of sin and therefore have no right to judge someone else for their own mistakes, it also serves to teach us that Christ is well aware of our sins and desires that we put them off and live a righteous life. Part of living a life of righteousness is respecting your body and saving it for marriage, because the Bible does indeed speak out against having sex before marriage.
    *and FWIW, I am not some holier than thou person, I had all 3 of my kids before I was married.*

  14. Um, I’m not sure why you’re embellishing –

    John 8: 10 – When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

    11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

    At any rate, the point of my bringing it up in the first place is that if Jesus didn’t condemn the woman, than why should we? Why should we condemn her but say nothing of the man she was involved with? That’s where it applies to our modern day world. If you’re going to condemn the woman for having sex outside of marriage, then you must also condemn the man, since he was an active part.

  15. Embellishing? What is embellished, the assumption that Christ knew how long this woman had been living in adultry? John 4, which tells us about the Samaritan woman Christ encountered at the well, clearly shows us that Christ is well aware of our sins and how long we have been living in them…it also clearly shows us that He desires we turn from that life and live a righteous life. I am in no way implying that men can do whatever they want with a woman and its all fine and dandy, men and women share responsibility when it comes to their sexual lives-and are equally responsible for the life of a child born outside of marriage.

  16. TeenMomNoRing0709

    First off you are an ignorant prick. It takes two people to make a baby both are equally responsible for the child THEY create.

    You say that “Women can trick men into getting them PREGNANT when the man thinks they are having safe sex.” Since when is it the woman’s job to worry about protection. It should be up to both parties involved in the sex act to protect themselves. That includes the MAN putting a condom on!

    You say ” I think that if the law adopted my position it would encourage women to not have sex unless they were married. ” What about men, would they be able to fuck people if they weren’t married? You only mention WOMEN. You sexist bastard. Why are the men to blame?

    You talk about a man with multiple children and then write “But I also have no sympathy for the ignorant immoral women who allowed him to father their children.” So it is 100% the womens fault? He is not immoral to you? He could have kept it in his pants after the first child.

    What about cases where the father wants the child and the mother doesn’t? When its the mother who has to give money to the father? Is that fair because she is immoral. By your standards it would be his fault right?

  17. Well, some dumb underage bitch has a few bastards with unknown fathers and suddenly she feels qualified to opine on the matter. Here’s a tip: keep your damn ugly ass knees together, get a job, become somebody, then come back in ten years and give us a report. Until you’ve supported yourself instead of just living off Daddy/Mommy/Uncle Sam, you have no right to an opinion.

  18. Your argument would be more convincing if you did not refer to Ann Coulter. Let’s face it: Ann is a throughly discredited source and a very troubled creature.

  19. paris walters

    Hey I’m a female that does not believe in child support. Women think that their children are meal tickets to there laziness. Men are just there to be a donor because every women I knew back in the 80’s and 90’s were having kids for money because if you have a baby you can recieve low income housing a welfare benefits. So when Bill Clinton made a welfare reform bill payments stop, and the welfare reported there case to child support.Every man in america that wants a baby should adopt the children first before you get married and you will never pay child support again and if a female try to not have sex without a condom dooooooo nooot because once she has a child she can leave you collect your money and continue to the next man have a baby by him collect his money and continue with other men to collect your money and live 18yrs. of free medical foodstamps no job no man and end up with a man that ain’t nothing and you will be paying for him her and all the other benifits that come out of it. so remember once she has your baby always take a dna or wear a condom cause women are nothing but GOLD DIGGERS and when the children get like 18 and there is no more money she will kick that kid to the curve just like she did the father and then she will say this child is nothing but problems and since the money is gone she is too. watch what i tell you when your child gets grown there is no need for the child presence any more and the child would end with no parents or guidence because this child was a meal ticket now the money has expired. Now it is move to the next……Paris

  20. paris walters

    Men beware of gold diggers the baby is the key to money every women knows that.

  21. paris walters

    Men if you do not want to pay child support when a women gets pregnant. Do not have any contact with her for years i mean years so if she finds in years and take you to court just tell the judge you want to sign over your rights men in america do not know that but you have a right to do that but they do not want men to know that so the next time a woman tells you she will put you on child support just say I sign over my parental rights and leave her right at the corner where you found her and she’ll get nothing and if you really want to get go on ssi not disability and pay a dollar a week it works.

  22. paris walters

    bitch you ain’t shit you wanted a baby not the man you lied to him saying you are on birth control when you are not so i know it take two to tangle cause most of these kid are one night stand kids and how do you expect a man to be a father when the mother is a hoe. then u tell your kids your father aint shit he was not shit when you was having sex with him now you ended up with a bastard kid and make sure you tell your child that u did not know the man that u had sex with and you are a one night stand child and i was a hoe when i had u.

  23. This is how my wife handled my mistress issue…
    After being married for 45 years, I took a careful look at my wife the other day and said…

    “Forty years ago we had a cheap house, a junk car, slept on a sofa bed and watched a 10-inch black and white TV, but I got to sleep every night with a hot 23-year-old girl.
    Now … I have a $600,000.00 home, a $45,000.00 car, a nice big king-size bed and a 60″ large screen color TV, but I’m sleeping with a 63-year-old woman. It seems to me that you’re not holding up your side of things.”

    Now my wife is a very reasonable woman…

    She told me to go out and find a hot 23-year-old girl and she would make sure that I would once again be living in a cheap house, driving a junk car, sleeping on a sofa bed and watching a 10-inch black and white TV…

    Aren’t older women great…?
    They really know how to solve an olde guy’s problems; in just one sentence…!

  24. Graaaaaaaaamps! All those toys are over-rated. And 23 year old babes are waaaaay UNDER-rated. I’m just sayin…

  25. Whether or not the parents have a government marriage certificate is logically irrelevant concerning the issue of so-called “child support”. What is relevant is WHO made the choice to bring the child into the world. It is an indisputable fact that the woman made that choice LEGALLY. Since it is ILlegal for the man to make such choice, it simply follows that legally he should not have to pay (money) for it; married or not. Choice=responsibility. Gee, what a novel concept…..

    • The man had the choice to have sex, knowing his partner might become pregnant. Condoms are not 100% foolproof, even if his partner is NOT trying to trick him. And honestly, that excuse is absurd, because the vast majority of women are NOT trying to trick their boyfriends. The vast majority of children needing financial support are born from two people who made the choice and to have sex.

      Bottom line. If a man doesn’t want to pay child support, he should keep his dick in his pants until he can accept the possibility of children. If he doesn’t want them, he should get snipped, and then there’s no possibility of him fathering any children. Men have a choice. It ends at sex. If he makes that choice, then anything that happens because of that choice is absolutely his responsibility.

  26. Man “makes a choice” to have sex, if woman conceives he gets zero in-put into choice whether child is carried to term, and pays for that poor choice for 18 years. Pretty piss-poor “choice” he has there. Women want all the power, but none of the responsability that comes with power. Sorry bitches, you make the bad choice to be with a man who does not want kids and you conceive, pay for your choice.

    • Then take the control away from the woman and decide what to do with your sperm. Sorry, jerkwad, you made the bad choice to have sex with a woman you couldn’t trust, now pay for your choice.

  27. Trailrider1983 says “The vast majority of children needing financial support are born from two people who made the choice and to have sex.” Apparently, she has yet to master biology 101. Last I checked, babies are birthed from a woman’s body (ONE person); and not a man.

    Trailrider1983 then states: “Bottom line. If a man doesn’t want to pay child support, he should keep his dick in his pants until he can accept the possibility of children. If he doesn’t want them, he should get snipped, and then there’s no possibility of him fathering any children.”
    This is tantamount to saying “if you don’t want to get wet, then don’t run through the sprinklers”. Nothing more than old tired out advice that’s been floating around for years. Ad baculum at best.

    She continues with “Men have a choice. It ends at sex. If he makes that choice, then anything that happens because of that choice is absolutely his responsibility.” True, his choice ends at sex which is PRECISELY why he should not be forced to pay money to a woman who makes the SOLE choice to bear a child. It’s AGAINST THE LAW for him to choose birth, therefore it ought to be against the law for him to be accountable for such choice; a concept even a 5 year old can grasp.

    Finally, trailrider1983 proclaims “Sorry, jerkwad, you made the bad choice to have sex with a woman you couldn’t trust, now pay for your choice.” In other words, pay a woman money for having sex. I might be mistaken, but that sure sounds an awful lot like prostitution…..

    • Last I checked, a woman does not create a child all on her own, it takes a man’s sperm. TWO people, and not just one woman last I checked… basic biology 101 as you pointed out.

      Yes… if you don’t want to get wet, don’t run through sprinklers. Why is this such a difficult concept to understand? If you don’t want kids, DON’T HAVE SEX. It’s an extremely simple concept, which may be why it’s so difficult for men to understand who are looking for complicated loopholes to get out of their legal and moral responsibility.

      It is not against the law for the man to choose birth. I have seen stories of RAPISTS suing their victim FROM JAIL and getting an injunction to keep her from aborting his child that was the result of rape. He can even sue for custody, AND WIN. If you don’t know your options, don’t sit there crying about how you have no rights.

      Men pay to have sex with women all the time outside of prostitution. You buy your dates dinner? Jewelry? Flowers? Ever pay any of her bills if you live together? Give her gas money?

      Women have to pay for their choice to have sex, whether with an invasive procedure, or for the rest of her life if she decides to keep the baby. Men have to pay for their choice by either paying for an abortion in some cases, or paying for the child that their sperm resulted in. Your price is MUCH lower than the woman has to pay, if you choose not to stay with the woman. You think your child support is all that child needs? Your child support goes to such a TINY portion of the financial responsibility for that child, and doesn’t cover ANY of his/her emotional or physical needs. I know someone who pays $200/month for his teenage son. It doesn’t even cover the amount of food he eats, let alone the massive amount of clothing he went through during his growth spurt. You sit there and complain about the tiny portion you have to pay to help support a child you helped to create, but all I hear is a bunch of whining because you want to have all the fun, but none of the responsibility. It all comes back to “if you don’t want kids, get fixed or don’t have sex.”

      • [trailrider1983’s comments in brackets]

        [Last I checked, a woman does not create a child all on her own, it takes a man’s sperm. TWO people, and not just one woman last I checked… basic biology 101 as you pointed out.]

        To use YOUR logic, it actually takes far more than just two people. It takes at least SIX; the maternal grandparents, paternal grandparents, and the parents. Afterall, without the biological input of any one of the six, impossible for the child to exist! Not to mention legally it takes only ONE person, and that person is the mother.

        [Yes… if you don’t want to get wet, don’t run through sprinklers. Why is this such a difficult concept to understand? If you don’t want kids, DON’T HAVE SEX. It’s an extremely simple concept, which may be why it’s so difficult for men to understand who are looking for complicated loopholes to get out of their legal and moral responsibility.]

        The discussion is not about a woman choosing (post conception) to make a man a father; rather it is about forcing a man to pay for a choice that is impossible for him to make. Unless, of course, you are forcing him to pay for sex.

        [It is not against the law for the man to choose birth. I have seen stories of RAPISTS suing their victim FROM JAIL and getting an injunction to keep her from aborting his child that was the result of rape.]

        Never heard of that. Care to provide the case information?

        [He can even sue for custody, AND WIN. If you don’t know your options, don’t sit there crying about how you have no rights.]

        Not about not having rights; it’s about being forced to pay money for somene ELSE’S choice!

        [Men pay to have sex with women all the time outside of prostitution. You buy your dates dinner? Jewelry? Flowers? Ever pay any of her bills if you live together? Give her gas money?]

        Only problem with all the above examples is not one of them is automatically payment to the woman because they had sex. But your statement “…you made the bad choice to have sex with a woman you couldn’t trust, now pay …” is.

        [Women have to pay for their choice to have sex, whether with an invasive procedure, or for the rest of her life if she decides to keep the baby. Men have to pay for their choice by either paying for an abortion in some cases, or paying for the child that their sperm resulted in.]

        Corrrection, the only result of sperm is a fertilized egg (zygote), and only AFTER the woman takes possession of such sperm. Again, biology 101. Any child is the result of a woman’s sole choice to gestate such zygote and create her child. Remember, her body HER choice.

        [Your price is MUCH lower than the woman has to pay, if you choose not to stay with the woman. You think your child support is all that child needs? Your child support goes to such a TINY portion of the financial responsibility for that child, and doesn’t cover ANY of his/her emotional or physical needs. I know someone who pays $200/month for his teenage son. It doesn’t even cover the amount of food he eats, let alone the massive amount of clothing he went through during his growth spurt.]

        All the above, even if true, is irrelevant to the issue at hand; that is a man ought not to be forced to pay a woman free cash for her SOLE choice.

        [You sit there and complain about the tiny portion you have to pay to help support a child you helped to create, but all I hear is a bunch of whining because you want to have all the fun, but none of the responsibility. It all comes back to “if you don’t want kids, get fixed or don’t have sex.”]

        Can’t argue about the “don’t want kids” part, but the “helped to create” part applies to the grandmother as well. In fact even MORE so since she CHOSE to bear a child, whereas the man had no such choice!

        • You’re being over the top stupid. My parents did not make the choice for me to have sex. In fact I’m sure they would have preferred I not. And a woman does not “take possession” of sperm, a man deposits it into the woman. He chose to put it in her, even if it was in a condom which is not 100% effective… failure rate is 12%. That was his choice, and that is the choice he must pay for if the condom fails. She didn’t make the choice before hand. If you chose to have sex with pro-life views, that’s on you dude. Big surprise here… not every woman who has a surprise pregnancy is happy about it, and pro-life women don’t feel that murder is a choice. This is a conversation you should have with every single woman you choose to have sex with. If you don’t, that’s your choice, but you will be stuck with the financial consequences of any resulting child.
          The rapist suing to keep a woman from having an abortion thing was in the news a while back, and the thing about the rapist getting custody happened to an aquaintance of mine. He ruined her life, and then he thought he could take her child away and do the same to her? That person is now in hiding, and she’ll be arrested and her child ripped from her if she is ever found.
          Child support is not “free money.” It comes with the hassle of having to deal with the deadbeat birth father in many cases. You still have to pay it, like it or not. That law is never going to change. So don’t want to pay? Don’t have sex.

          • [trailrider1983’s comments in brackets]

            [You’re being over the top stupid. My parents did not make the choice for me to have sex.]

            Nor did the man make the choice for the woman to give birth.

            [In fact I’m sure they would have preferred I not.]

            In fact I’m sure he would have preferred she not.

            [And a woman does not “take possession” of sperm, a man deposits it into the woman. He chose to put it in her, even if it was in a condom which is not 100% effective… failure rate is 12%.]

            Uhuh, and when you hold your hand out to accept a hundred dollar bill being given to you, you didn’t choose to take possession of it, the giver chose to put it in your hand. With all due respect, are you for REAL?

            [That was his choice, and that is the choice he must pay for if the condom fails. She didn’t make the choice before hand.]

            Let me see if I got this straight. He chose to have sex beforehand, and she did not choose to have sex beforehand. Is this correct?

            [If you chose to have sex with pro-life views, that’s on you dude. Big surprise here… not every woman who has a surprise pregnancy is happy about it, and pro-life women don’t feel that murder is a choice. This is a conversation you should have with every single woman you choose to have sex with. If you don’t, that’s your choice, but you will be stuck with the financial consequences of any resulting child.]

            Which is precisely the problem; such “financial consequences” belonging to the woman.

            [ The rapist suing to keep a woman from having an abortion thing was in the news a while back,]

            Life on the moon was “in the news” a while back too. Care to support your claim?

            [and the thing about the rapist getting custody happened to an aquaintance of mine. He ruined her life, and then he thought he could take her child away and do the same to her? That person is now in hiding, and she’ll be arrested and her child ripped from her if she is ever found.]

            The above, if true, is tantamount to saying “buy a lottery ticket and you will win MILLIONS; I did”.

            [ Child support is not “free money.” It comes with the hassle of having to deal with the deadbeat birth father in many cases.]

            Likewise, paying the free money comes with the hassle of having to deal with the deadbeat birth mother in many cases. So what’s your point?

            [You still have to pay it, like it or not. That law is never going to change. So don’t want to pay? Don’t have sex.]

            Argumentum ad baculum.

            • God, you are just an idiot, plain and simple. Thank God for the law that protects women who get preyed on by men like you, and the children men like you create with no thought to the consequences. I’m done arguing with the massive idiot who makes choices and doesn’t want to deal consequences. Bu-bye. I hope you never make any babies.

              • Trailrider1983 states: “God, you are just an idiot, plain and simple. Thank God for the law that protects women who get preyed on by men like you, and the children men like you create with no thought to the consequences. I’m done arguing with the massive idiot who makes choices and doesn’t want to deal consequences. Bu-bye. I hope you never make any babies.”

                Ad hominem, false assumptions, and red herring all in one fail swoop. Classic example of what the liberal ultimately resorts to when the fallacies of their argument is exposed; call names, pick up their marbles, and go home. It’s people with precisely this type of thinking that are legislating laws, running the courts, and enforcing such laws. Based on this fact, no surprise that society is in the mess it is!

                • Speaking of assumptions, I am most definitely NOT a liberal, I’m very conservative. I am not stupid enough to think that woman created a baby on her own, and therefore should not bare the sole responsibility of said child. People who think this way are complete ignorant asses that make me sad for the future, and all the neglected children men like you help to create.

                  • [trailrider1983’s comments in brackets]

                    [Speaking of assumptions, I am most definitely NOT a liberal,]

                    Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck…….. MUST be a duck!

                    [ I’m very conservative. I am not stupid enough to think that woman created a baby on her own, and therefore should not bare the sole responsibility of said child.]

                    The above statement is a classic example of ambiguity. What’s implied is that I claim there is no biology other than the woman’s when it comes to her choice to create a child. This is just another diversionary tactic. In the proper context regarding responsibility, CLEARLY the woman is solely responsible as she ALONE made the SOLE choice to create (bear) her child. She creates her child both physically and LEGALLY! I have seen many women give birth, but have yet to see a man do the same. Not sure what I should believe though, my lying eyes or what trailrider1983 says.

                    The claim that a man should be responsible for the existence of a child because a single microscopic cell from his body was involved is ludicrous. Even more ludicrous, is the claim that the man is not responsible between conception and birth (“my body, my choice”) but then at the moment of birth, the man magically becomes responsible. Funny how that works. Once again, the liberal mentality.

                    The greater hipocrisy comes with the post conception choice LEGALLY resting SOLELY with the woman, yet the man is held accountable for such choice. Must be nice to be able to make a choice and to force someone else to pay you money for your own choice! Where can I sign up?

                    [ People who think this way are complete ignorant asses that make me sad for the future, and all the neglected children men like you help to create.]

                    More false assumptions. Men “help” to create a baby just as much as a steel supplier helps to create an automobile. Actually, the steel supplier’s contribution is much greater! So in that regard, I suppose my analogy fails.

                    • What stupid thing to argue about. I paid child support for sixteen years, not because I had to, but because I thought it was the right thing to do.

                      Any man who doesn’t stand up for his responsibility isn’t much of a man in my book.

                      So the fuck what if you as a man don’t have a choice whether or not the woman keeps the child. You made the choice to have sex with her. If ya wanna dance, ya gotta pay the band.

  28. We get it. You are a fucking self-proclaimed know it all who probably raises his voice the more annoyed he gets when mere mortals do not blindly accept his points of views. That’s not whining you hear. It’s FUCK YOU. I say, no say in the matter, no pay for the choice that is made. Now I will proceed to cover my eyes and not read any further comments by you. NanaNANAnanaNANA, I can’t hear you.

  29. As usual, it is hard to argue with Mike’s stated position. But I also “feel it is the right thing to do” to give the man a say in whether the child lives or dies. And to force the issue, to gain men equal bargaining rights, if men are not given any say, then they should not be legally responsible to support the child if the mother chooses to bear him/her. That leaves room for those who DO feel it is the right thing to do to support the child, but leaves it open to those who do not wish to support the child.

    I like to think that I too, would man up and support such a child born out of wedlock. I KNOW I would if the mom let me be a big part of the kid’s life. I wouldn’t love my child less just because they were conceived outside of wedlock. I’m just trying to take this outside of the personal. Just as I could never discuss the issue of abortion rationally with my dearly departed grandmother (because she had had a botched illegal abortion as a young woman) I suspect that we will never convince Mike to see the other side to this issue…

    • A man could get by without paying child support, but he would either have to disappear himself or have the blessing of the woman. Once the mother either starts court proceedings to collect child support or she applies for state assistance, the state becomes involved and they will get their pound of flesh whether you like it or not.

      I should state that my kids were born in wedlock so my situation might be construed as different. Maybe I’m just an old fashioned guy, eh?

  30. Hmmm…. my father grew up during a time when it wasn’t a good thing to be a “dead beat dad.” He thinks ill of them, as I would. Every kid has 50% of their genes from both parents, so they should be taken care of by both equally. I have never had any children/never been pregnant even though I’ve been involved with other people. I plan to (never) have children because of how aweful life can be, and I could not afford one anyway But… those who impregnate others should give financially. I grew up during a time when many mothers were home-makers and fathers HAD to pay for the families they created. My father is a good guy and helped financially as much as he could for his two families he created over the years BECAUSE his father before him created kids with a woman and was THERE for his family. My father would not have given a sh-t if it was not for the fact he himself grew up in a loving household with two parents back in the 40s and 50s. His father was working class but still cared for his kids and wife. It’s really sad that people create other people these days and dont give a shit about the lives they created. This makes me wonder… these people who don’t take care of the kids they create…. did they not have Both Parents care for them while they were growing up and that’s why? Oh well… that’s just how him (and) I grew up….. we both had home-maker mothers, and while his father was a waiter (he was Asian and in the 40s in DC…. I think that’s the best he could do) and my father got into the computer programmer field so my childhood consisted of a LOVING father (thank God cause based on what I’ve read online…. anywhere online… that is a RARE breed – let’s be honest…”keep it 100″ as they say. DAMN…. this truly – no bull sh-t- makes me appreciate my father. If I ever win a million bucks -aint gonna happen but stil- I’m giving his az half. : O)

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